tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post4316459611381437408..comments2023-10-28T04:06:59.629-05:00Comments on Plaisted Writes: Black and White WorldMike Plaistedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18184502941014520240noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-10951019916408953072007-10-09T13:34:00.000-05:002007-10-09T13:34:00.000-05:00Sorry if I came off in a rather nasty tone, it was...Sorry if I came off in a rather nasty tone, it was not my intent. I am rather emotional on the opic as my personal situation and the struggles relating to my disability and health have changed dramatically in the last couple of months. I Understand what you were saying, but i did not think you were hearing me, and I still don't think you are. The fact that you think we are hopelessly off-topic and I think its all so very connected tells me we are not speaking the same language. There are times when the limited nature of this comment section does more to confuse than to clarify. <BR/><BR/>You made this comment..."airport security checks of the nature you described are an unfortunate but necessary reality, not an example of the discrimination and racism being discussed in this topic." That statemtent, in my opinion, is so simple. It is discrimination to think that because I have a prothsesis I pose a threat. This is not a necessary evil. You have plenty of places in and on your body where you could hide drugs or weapons. I may have one more, but that does not make me a threat and by suggesting that I am you are discriminating against me. Not giving me access to public transportation is discriminatory. I'm not important enought to inconvenience the system and provide an alternative for. For goodness sake, who needs public transportation more? <BR/><BR/>Anyway, I can get a bit fierce on this topiC. If that is what came through instead of my passion for equal rites for every American, I regret it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-86660076228735873892007-10-09T11:03:00.000-05:002007-10-09T11:03:00.000-05:00I didn't miss your point at all. If you look at m...I didn't miss your point at all. If you look at my post from 5:13 PM...<BR/><BR/>"I would dare say that nearly everyone treats some people differently."<BR/><BR/>I then made the point that airport security checks of the nature you described are an unfortunate but necessary reality, not an example of the discrimination and racism being discussed in this topic. The fact I said it’s unfortunate (actually, I think I said it sucks) should have indicated that I was at least a little sympathetic.<BR/><BR/>I had hoped a lively discussion (within the context of the topic at hand) would ensue where you would offer perspectives that would help me have a better understanding of people in your situation.<BR/><BR/>But you offered no counterpoints. Instead, you went on a tangent about whitebread delusions and courthouses and trains and restaurants. You accused me of thinking the disabled don't face any challenges or have the same rights as anyone else. Where you got that, I don't know – I never referred to anything but airport security. Did you think that because I challenged your ideas, I was an insensitive jerk who believed disabled people are crybabies that should shut up and get over it? Rather than challenging my ideas, you tried to assault my character without knowing anything about me.<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, that's indicative of the level of debate in this country. The exchange of ideas has given way to bickering and personal attacks.<BR/><BR/>We’re hopelessly off-topic, and this could go on forever. So this will be my last post on this.<BR/><BR/>Have a nice day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-13055171906383121002007-10-09T08:58:00.000-05:002007-10-09T08:58:00.000-05:00Anony, I am not here to cry about the plight of th...Anony, I am not here to cry about the plight of the handicapped in the United States, I was simply trying to make the point, which you obviously missed, that the police, the court systems, the people around us do treat certain groups differently. I am not saying that being handicapped is akin to having you're civil rights trounced on a regular basis. But let me ask you this...do you think I have a civil right to expect the same treatment in the airport as you? Do you think I have a civil right to be able to roll in the front door of my local courthouse? Do you think I have a civil right to be able to ride the same busses and trains you do? Do you think I have a civil right to be able to eat in the same restaurants? Well? I guess I did. <BR/><BR/>Roll in my shoes for a couple of days and tell me that as a society we respect everyone's civil liberties equally!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-1213889513040265312007-10-08T12:36:00.000-05:002007-10-08T12:36:00.000-05:00You don't respond to my questions and you hurl ins...You don't respond to my questions and you hurl insults and accusations for which you have no basis. Feeling backed into a corner, are we?<BR/><BR/>Unless you can come up with a valid argument in response to my points, this discussion has become tiresome and I think we're done here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-82096819669464695912007-10-08T11:18:00.000-05:002007-10-08T11:18:00.000-05:00gee, silly me, I thougth the fact that my local co...gee, silly me, I thougth the fact that my local courthouse isn't even accesable to me was a pretty good example of my civil liberties being violated. The fact that I can't even get throught the front door without having to request help is a bit more than an inconvienience. <BR/><BR/>Do I think you live in a white bread Utopia where if you haven't experineced it it doesn't exist? Oh yes I do!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-35835105655412054262007-10-07T16:50:00.000-05:002007-10-07T16:50:00.000-05:00I'm not the one who made this about security check...I'm not the one who made this about security checks. If you had better examples of how your plight is akin to racism in the judicial system, you should have made them earlier.<BR/><BR/>My points were:<BR/><BR/>a.) Being checked at an airport is not the same as having your civil liberties violated by the government based on race.<BR/><BR/>b.) While unfortunate, your being scrutinized at the airport is necessary for the safety of all travelers.<BR/><BR/>Those are hardly delusions of a whitebread utopia. And since you chose to not answer my question and instead attempt to insult me, I'll assume you concede those points (now there's a delusion).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-28027775972282322012007-10-06T22:36:00.000-05:002007-10-06T22:36:00.000-05:00It's comforting to know that you think the only th...It's comforting to know that you think the only thing affecting the rights of the disabled are security checks. You must live in a wonderful white bread world. Enjoy your delusions! I live in a small town where I can't even enter the courthouse without help.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-6982424132073507402007-10-06T13:20:00.000-05:002007-10-06T13:20:00.000-05:00Guess,You're comparing a study on possible racial ...Guess,<BR/><BR/>You're comparing a study on possible racial disparities affecting people's civil liberties to inconveniences you experience at airports. That's a stretch.<BR/><BR/>Last I checked, air travel is a privilege, not a right. You don't want to be checked 100% of the time? Great. What is an acceptable rate? And how are the security people supposed to distinguish you from another amputee who might be a security risk or smuggling drugs or whatever?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-66335308894920833742007-10-05T23:47:00.000-05:002007-10-05T23:47:00.000-05:00Are you kidding me? NO, clearly I don't think its ...Are you kidding me? NO, clearly I don't think its a strech or I wouldn't have made the comment. It is not human nature to treat people differently because of the way they look. There are dozens of studies done about small children, and guess what? They don't treat people differently based on color or appearance.This is learned behavior, no doubt! <BR/><BR/>I'm sorry you don't see a connection, its a shame. Here's the connection...I don't expect to be exempt from searches because I am an amputee. I also don't think that I should be searched 100% of the time because I am an amputee. I don't think that Blacks should be exempt from random police stops, I also don't think they should have to come to expect them. Our appearance should not dictate our treament by society. <BR/><BR/>Get it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-15657651879129284942007-10-05T17:13:00.000-05:002007-10-05T17:13:00.000-05:00Guess - Well there's a news flash. Except it's no...Guess - Well there's a news flash. Except it's not limited to the police. I would dare say that nearly everyone treats some people differently. It's human nature.<BR/><BR/>But that's totally beside the point. While it sucks, your situation is a necessary reality (What if they didn't check amputees?), and to compare it to racial disparities in the judicial system is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-9184801300707039352007-10-03T13:25:00.000-05:002007-10-03T13:25:00.000-05:00anon 4:41, all I was trying to say is that we don'...anon 4:41, all I was trying to say is that we don't need a study to know that the police treat some people differently.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-74861400756243397882007-10-02T22:46:00.000-05:002007-10-02T22:46:00.000-05:00so that's itso that's itAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-30652903473474432872007-10-02T16:41:00.000-05:002007-10-02T16:41:00.000-05:00Guess and Anon 10:08,Huh?Guess and Anon 10:08,<BR/><BR/>Huh?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-49490097928118492082007-10-02T10:08:00.000-05:002007-10-02T10:08:00.000-05:00I sympathize, Guess. Another middle-aged, middle-...I sympathize, Guess. Another middle-aged, middle-class mother -- but also with a somewhat invisible disability, a metal insert in one shoe for a shorter leg. So the searches started for me as soon as the airport security started. <BR/><BR/>Believe me, it's actually better now than the very public humiliations then, in the name of our homeland.<BR/><BR/>So with that and the ever-worsening discomforts of travel once we actually are allowed to get on a plane, and the ever-worsening delays, I'm avoiding air travel, too. It's not my idea of how to start a vacation, being -- as you say -- treated like meat in a singles bar. And paying more all the time for it, too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-39297838481850974032007-10-02T09:39:00.000-05:002007-10-02T09:39:00.000-05:00I used to go through the airport without ever bein...I used to go through the airport without ever being searched or "padded down". I mean never. I am a frequent business traveler and I had never once been asked to "step aside" for further search. I was recently involved in a tragedy that took a limb. I wear a prosthesis. Since that time I have never, NOT been searched in an airport. While I am sure that my leg could potentially be a great hiding place for drugs or explosives, I am quite convinced that the experience has more to do with my differences than anything else. I am a white, middle-class mother. I had never been padded-down before. If you have never had this experience, I can tell you if feels an awful lot like getting your ass grabbed in a bar, its just wrong and icky. I avoid air travel whenever possible. When I have to fly now I have to prepare myself mentally for the experience I am going to have. People see me differently now, they make judgments, they treat me differently. I'm just wondering, do you need a study to find out how many amputees get searched vs. non-amputees? Or is it possible to recognize that as a society, we look at some people differently. We make judgments that hurt and humiliate our fellow citizens. Do we really need to "study" this problem? Do we really need to prove it exists? When you look into your heart don't you know that it does?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-91664149701110642732007-10-01T22:41:00.000-05:002007-10-01T22:41:00.000-05:00No, but Doyle can blame some things on the politic...No, but Doyle can blame some things on the political posturing by Republicans on the state budget right now. "To provide alternatives to a life of crime? To fight poverty? To bring genuine change to education?" Who is he supposed to be, FDR?<BR/><BR/>If you want "facts" on jaywalking and other bullshit tickets given every day to black Milwaukeeans, go to the Milwaukee Municipal Court any day of the week. Amoung the hundreds in the waiting room there, try to find more than 20 white people. Then multiply that by three or four, for the people who don't fight the ticket. Are you saying blacks and whites have the same expereinces with cops on the street and in traffic stops? Do I really need statistics to back that up, or can't you just feel it?<BR/><BR/>The line between class and race is indeed thin in these issues (by the way, 15 of those 20 whites you'll find in the waiting room are poor-to-working class). But I've never heard conservatives offer anything but boot-strap theory and "fix broken families" and stuff like that. Poor (and minority) people could never do enough to "prove" to conservatives that they "deserve" assistance. I don't know why they should have to.Mike Plaistedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18184502941014520240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-41842683452595604292007-10-01T22:24:00.000-05:002007-10-01T22:24:00.000-05:00Mike:My comments about incentives, etc...were more...Mike:<BR/><BR/>My comments about incentives, etc...were more aimed at helping those in poverty, not sentencing. Poverty, not race, is the issue. Like the left, conservatives seek to end poverty too because we know that will reduce crime and increase reading scores. We differ on the methods.<BR/><BR/>And Doyle should be the real target of your post. This is his second term in Madison, so he can't really blame things on Thompson, can he? Rather than study the problem so many of us are convinced exists, why hasn't he done something? To provide alternatives to a life of crime? To fight poverty? To bring genuine change to education?<BR/><BR/>P.S. Where are the facts on jay-walking, etc... I'll wait.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-43617339780574568152007-10-01T21:34:00.000-05:002007-10-01T21:34:00.000-05:00I didn't say McAdams' numbers are wrong. So he sa...I didn't say McAdams' numbers are wrong. So he says Wisconsin's disparity is about the national average -- so what? It's still a disparity. He says the disparity is OK. He says drug use by whites and blacks should be treated differently. He closes with the dramatic pronouncement that no one should side with people who shoot little girls in the head". Like anyone would. The fact that he's "full of it" has nothing to do with his numbers, it has to do with his wildly unscientific side-comments and his (and your) attack on Doyle for making an attempt to figure it out.<BR/><BR/>Rewarding "stable families" and creating "incentives" for those who succeed in school means what in terms of disparity in incarceration? All that information is presented at sentencing, it's all factored in, and the disparity is still there. I'm afraid that you are saying that, if someone comes from and "unstable" family or does not "succeed" in school, that they get what they deserve. Say it ain't so, Patrick.Mike Plaistedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18184502941014520240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-13515052838118119642007-10-01T20:44:00.000-05:002007-10-01T20:44:00.000-05:00So let me get this straight: Mc Adams, a professio...So let me get this straight: Mc Adams, a professional scholar who regularly examines data and statistics is full of it, but Mike Plaisted and his convenient bag of random observations and anecdotes is to be taken at his word?<BR/><BR/>Show us the numbers to back up all the claims you make, or retract them. Next, please explain--using the nunbers Mc Adams cites--why he is full of it, or why his munbers are wrong. Mike, you always tell us how you have all the facts, so why not share them with us.<BR/><BR/>And before you attempt your attacks, calling me racist neo-con whatever, know that I sympathize with the special problems african americans face. We happen to work together very regularly too. I just don't think Doyle's stupid study will solve anything. What might solve the problem are reasonable programs which reward stable families and create incentives for students who achieve in school. Heck, I'd pay students to be in school and a bonus too if they met yearly growth targets.<BR/><BR/>Don't take too long with those facts....We're waiting.....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-77037526335893090842007-10-01T09:09:00.000-05:002007-10-01T09:09:00.000-05:00Very astute observations, sir. Keep up the good w...Very astute observations, sir. Keep up the good work. I wish this kind of insight was available in more mass-media type outlets, like the JS.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13603910165854702494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-80008799032961437722007-10-01T09:07:00.000-05:002007-10-01T09:07:00.000-05:00I found it funny how Doyle funded this study on ra...I found it funny how Doyle funded this study on racial disparity in prisons and then at the same time funded increased police in the central city of Milwaukee. Talk about robbing Peter to pay Paul! Typical Doyle pandering to his minority voting base as well as his white voting base.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com