tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post5059973802631522682..comments2023-10-28T04:06:59.629-05:00Comments on Plaisted Writes: The Lies of McBride – Bin Laden and the DemsMike Plaistedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18184502941014520240noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-21975693393261514592007-09-14T14:42:00.000-05:002007-09-14T14:42:00.000-05:00You know, as what I like to consider myself - a fa...You know, as what I like to consider myself - a fairly pragmatic dem - I think both sides have got it almost completely wrong. There's a lot of us-or-them bluster, we should never have used military strength, yadda yadda.<BR/><BR/>Reality - and middle-eastern geopolitics - has always been much more subtle.<BR/><BR/>Problem one: both teh dems and the republicans treat iraq as though it were one natural entity. It's not. It never was. It was a false state drawn by the british encapsulating one nice big geographical region with a few hundred microcultures with millenia of animosity. And we expect 130,000 troops to hold THAT together? It took a brutal autocratic regime to even come close to that, and I don't think we want a repeat of that. <BR/><BR/>And, afgter a few hundred years of Britain, Russia, France and others ("the west") redrawing borders and playing "the great game" in central asia and the eastern mediterranean, any western interference needs to be handled extremely delicately - history has taught these countries to expect that they're all targets, whether or not they actually are.<BR/><BR/>Problem 2: the belief seems to be all-or-nothing when it comes to military response. Do I think we shouldn't have gone into iraq? Yes. I think it was a terrible mistake. Do I think we shouldn't've engaged in preemptive military action against Al Qaeda and other terrorist cells? Certainly not. Iraq was just a lousy target for it. Afghanistan was a great start. I'm sure Pakistan would've loved some help pacifying Taliban militants in Waziristan. Help the house of Saud get out from under the thumb of the Wahhabi clerics (where OBL gets his rhetoric), people will be happier there (not that I like the house of Saud, but displacing them would *really* piss off the arab world)<BR/><BR/>Problem 3: We keep forgetting about Iran. They're the 800-lb gorilla in the room. And - they're not arabs, they're a religious minority (shia), and they're not strictly speaking islamists. They don't share Nasser's glorious pan-arab nationalism or the islamist caliphate-dreams and consider most of that rhetoric to be worrisome - and they're going to do whatever it takes to preserve their standing as an independent power in the region. A war with Iran would be disastrous, as we could expect almost no indiginous support.<BR/><BR/>Frankly, I think GW had the right idea at one point, set up a stable democracy that can effect regional change. And he had the perfect opportunity with Afghanistan - nobody really *liked* the Taleban, the people were aching for change, and we had no problem convicing our allies and enemies alike that hey, Afghanistan's a mess that needs cleaning up. we were *this* close, and we abandoned it in favor of a pipe dream with a persian gulf port. Iraq - not a good choice. Wasn't thought through. Even stalwart secularist Turkey is freaking out about it because of their own Kurdish nationalist "issues." <BR/><BR/>We're now in a situation in which there's no decent possible outcome. We leave, we look weak and iraq devolves into an anarchic state. We stay, we fight a long war of attrition for an iraqi goal that has very little to do with our own national security aims.nulldevicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07041490093977223156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-181640185754466502007-09-14T10:26:00.000-05:002007-09-14T10:26:00.000-05:00Why are you such a defeatist? By your measure, we ...Why are you such a defeatist? By your measure, we should not have fought the Revolutionary War because it was too bloody, same goes for the Civil War. Since when is war bloodless? Nearly every country who enjoys freedom today has shed a lot of blood to get there. <BR/><BR/>How is it not a success when we captured Saddam, allowed for multiple democratic elections in Iraq, hunted down and captured/killed a significant number of al-Qaida in Iraq and elsewhere, and Osama is constantly on the run only able to put out videos once a year? He was never on the run until 2001, he was harbored by governments free to do whatever he wanted. No longer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-5143880445443678312007-09-14T09:27:00.000-05:002007-09-14T09:27:00.000-05:00I's certainly impressed with your ability to hit t...I's certainly impressed with your ability to hit the wingnut talking point macro. I takes real skill to press down <I>both</I> the control and 'v' keys. <BR/><BR/>Don't trouble you're pretty bitty brain over the <A HREF="http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-fg-iraq14sep14,1,1207545.story?coll=la-news-a_section&ctrack=1&cset=true" REL="nofollow">1.2 million Iraqi dead</A>, the 2.5 million refugees and the 2.2 million internally displaced. <BR/><BR/>And when the US is attacked by a vengeful Iraqi, you can swallow the <A HREF="http://tinyrevolution.com/mt/mt-static/images/boob.jpg" REL="nofollow">blue pill</A> and support the next effort to kill a few million more in response.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-47182521222147883802007-09-14T09:10:00.000-05:002007-09-14T09:10:00.000-05:00Anon 12:29, you're correct: They hated us before w...Anon 12:29, you're correct: They hated us before we attacked Iraq to get Saddam.<BR/><BR/>And now they hate us more. <BR/><BR/>And we're still there.<BR/><BR/>And now we hear that we will be there for many years more.<BR/><BR/>So you call this "success" in securing our safety, here and abroad? You say this war was a "success," because we got Saddam?<BR/><BR/>Explain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-784546520846174842007-09-14T08:34:00.000-05:002007-09-14T08:34:00.000-05:00Yeah, that Saddam was really a nice guy. What were...Yeah, that Saddam was really a nice guy. What were we possibly thinking in taking him out? <BR/><BR/>"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."<BR/>--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998<BR/><BR/>"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."<BR/>--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998<BR/><BR/>"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."<BR/>Letter to President Clinton, signed by:<BR/>-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998<BR/><BR/>"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."<BR/>-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998<BR/><BR/>"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."<BR/>-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002<BR/><BR/>"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."<BR/>-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002<BR/><BR/>"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."<BR/>-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002<BR/><BR/>"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."<BR/>-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002<BR/><BR/>"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."<BR/>-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002<BR/><BR/>"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."<BR/>-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002<BR/><BR/>"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."<BR/>-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002<BR/><BR/>"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."<BR/>-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002<BR/><BR/>"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."<BR/>-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-60003336798164559752007-09-13T19:24:00.000-05:002007-09-13T19:24:00.000-05:00No, America good. Wingnuts who drink stupid juice ...No, America good. <BR/><BR/>Wingnuts who drink stupid juice and enable worst foreign policy fuck up in American history bad, bad, bad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-40425082174413607162007-09-13T16:26:00.000-05:002007-09-13T16:26:00.000-05:00Ah, so it's all our fault that they hate us and wa...Ah, so it's all our fault that they hate us and want to kill us. The USA is bad, bad, bad!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-75288726523694287882007-09-13T13:13:00.000-05:002007-09-13T13:13:00.000-05:00No shit, Sherlock. When did make a claim otherwise...No shit, Sherlock. When did make a claim otherwise? <BR/><BR/>Iraq is one link in a chain of examples of Westerners abusing Muslims that goes back to the 19th Century that the jihadis use to justify their actions. Bin Laden's declaration of war was based on American troops "Occupying the land of the Two Holy Places."<BR/><BR/>The jihadis themselves are nuts, and are engaged in a mystical religious battle that only exists in their heads. But they are telling a <I>narrative</I> of Western oppression that resonates with most Muslims because it <I>appears</I> to them that Westerners are hell-bent on suppressing their religion and stealing their land and resources. The current war in Iraq fits into that narrative, regarldless of whether our motives are noble or not.<BR/><BR/>If westerners would stop invading, overthrowing governments and killing people, the jihadis would have no hope of convincing people that their cause is just and they couldn't raise money and recruits to their cause.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-86190840730453634502007-09-13T12:29:00.000-05:002007-09-13T12:29:00.000-05:00A little hint, these jihadists hated America and w...A little hint, these jihadists hated America and wished for our death long before we attacked Saddam.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-83766872549216215352007-09-13T11:45:00.000-05:002007-09-13T11:45:00.000-05:00See, you just did it again with your "translation....See, you just did it again with your "translation." <BR/><BR/>If you'd stop and think for 10 seconds, you might be able to figure out what he's referring to when he says "jobs."<BR/><BR/>He means that it would be much harder for the jihadists to build a movement - and attack the United States homeland - when the US isn't justifying the accusation that it is out to kill Muslims and occupy their land.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-60856813980589041722007-09-13T11:23:00.000-05:002007-09-13T11:23:00.000-05:00Really? How about this quote:"But withdrawal from ...Really? How about this quote:<BR/><BR/>"But withdrawal from Iraq would make their jobs much harder, if we really withdraw. For the first time since 1990, we would not have an obtrusive military presence in the heart of Arabia"<BR/><BR/>Translation, if we pull out, it will make it harder for them to kill Americans because they'll have to come to our shores to do so.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-50831949140487663482007-09-12T15:12:00.000-05:002007-09-12T15:12:00.000-05:00advocating isolationism mainly by stating the obvi...<I>advocating isolationism mainly by stating the obvious fact that the US is a great distance away from the Middle East</I><BR/><BR/>It doesn't say that at all, not even implicitly. Like I said, if you would stop reading in what YOU think opponents of the war believe, you might get the point.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-57365764111516018822007-09-12T14:50:00.000-05:002007-09-12T14:50:00.000-05:00Enough with the insults, grow up and act like an a...Enough with the insults, grow up and act like an adult. <BR/><BR/>I read it, read it again, and read it again. TO ME, it sounds like they're advocating isolationism mainly by stating the obvious fact that the US is a great distance away from the Middle East ergo making any attack on innocent Americans or US troops much more difficult instead of the easy access the terrorists have now to our nation's best and bravest in Iraq/Afghanistan now. <BR/><BR/>Sorry, I simply do not agree with that line of logic. Isolationism has led us into World Wars and attacks on our home soil. To me that's not good.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-47123400253586950342007-09-12T13:14:00.000-05:002007-09-12T13:14:00.000-05:00Thick. As a brick.Read it again, asking yourself t...Thick. As a brick.<BR/><BR/>Read it again, asking yourself this question: "What is it that I'm assuming about my political opponents' positions that make me think they would take my "questions" seriously?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-8042948106839970662007-09-12T10:40:00.000-05:002007-09-12T10:40:00.000-05:00I read it three times, basically what I got was th...I read it three times, basically what I got was that we should pull out then hope and pray they go away because it's a long way from the ME to the US. <BR/><BR/>Can someone say isolationism?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-54262398461191935922007-09-11T18:21:00.000-05:002007-09-11T18:21:00.000-05:00Anony: I'm answering all your questions, you just ...Anony: I'm answering all your questions, you just keep trying to move the goalposts by asking new ones. Since I like circles, I will continue to let you run me around in them.<BR/><BR/>I don't want to get out of Iraq "for political reasons only" or for political reasons at all. 1. We shouldn't have gone there in the first place. 2. Once we got there, the whole idea of a "viceroy" and an occupation was absurd and as offensive to the Iraqi nationalists and Arabs generally as anyone would have predicted. 3. We now have our troops stuck between parties in a civil war, and they are getting killed for no good reason. <BR/><BR/>Are you trying to say that, if the polls showed people wanted us to stay there, I would support that? That's crazy. I was against the war from the beginning. Oh, and, by the way, when do we get recognized for being right? I won't hold my breath.<BR/><BR/>As for the rest of it, I defer to the brilliant exposition linked-to in the comment by gnarlytrombone, above. It is written by a guy named Jim Henley in Maryland, and I agree with every answer he gives to a similarly determined right-winger playing gotcha games. Read it twice and call me in the morning.Mike Plaistedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18184502941014520240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-33330719669258144562007-09-11T17:58:00.000-05:002007-09-11T17:58:00.000-05:00Here's your answer, concern troll.<A HREF="http://www.highclearing.com/index.php/archives/2007/05/26/6492" REL="nofollow">Here's your answer</A>, concern troll.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-4473523221188336322007-09-11T17:50:00.000-05:002007-09-11T17:50:00.000-05:00Justin - huh? What difference does it make if I li...Justin - huh? What difference does it make if I like Mike or not? I could make up a name and you'd never know the difference so who cares? If he doesn't like anony replies then he needs to disengage that function on his blog, it's really quite simple. If you're so adament about knowing who everyone is, why not list your full name, address, and phone number? <BR/><BR/>All I'm asking him to do is answer a question that he seemingly doesn't want/know how to answer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-73838796032471350352007-09-11T16:58:00.000-05:002007-09-11T16:58:00.000-05:00Anonymous, you obviously have an adgenda; kick Mik...Anonymous, you obviously have an adgenda; kick Mike in the nuts. Why not come out of the closet and be brave enought to let him know who you are. No doubt you must know and dislike him, it's written all over your comments. Not as clever as you thought?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-40186742903319476642007-09-11T16:02:00.000-05:002007-09-11T16:02:00.000-05:00Capturing bin Laden does nothing. He's merely a fi...Capturing bin Laden does nothing. He's merely a figurehead hiding out in a cave with no real controlled network or terror cells. We capture/kill bin Laden it doesn't change the minds of those who hate us as a matter of their own religion. <BR/><BR/>I love Mike's earlier challenge that I posed to come up with a plan: GET OUT<BR/><BR/>Look Mike, I get that you want out of there for political reasons only (victory in 2008), but once we pull out, THEN WHAT? Do you think pulling out will magically end terrorism against the US or stop the ingrained hatred against innocent civilians?? <BR/><BR/>What is your PLAN to EFFECTIVELY deal with terrorism??? And don't mimmic what Clinton did because obviously that didn't work, we got attacked regularly on our soil and overseas US military targets. <BR/><BR/>I'm all ears for your hawkish answer....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-24277294698789342502007-09-11T15:08:00.000-05:002007-09-11T15:08:00.000-05:00Anonymous Bushie Backer -- it really ought to have...Anonymous Bushie Backer -- it really ought to have occurred to you by now that this administration needs Bin Laden to still be "out there."<BR/><BR/>Since they convinced so many Americans that going to Iraq was striking back for 9/11, which was Bin Laden's work . . . then it would follow that if he had been caught, those Americans would figure that the reason to be in Iraq was over.<BR/><BR/>So capturing Bin Laden would add to the call for the war to end. See it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-89563246300690083482007-09-10T22:42:00.000-05:002007-09-10T22:42:00.000-05:00Wow. You are a mass of symptoms, my man. I didn'...Wow. You are a mass of symptoms, my man. I didn't think anyone could cram so much bullshit in one paragraph (well, it is a run-on), but you did it. Congratulations!<BR/><BR/>1. Al Quaeda doesn't hope for sanity in U.S. politics, it's too easy for them with Bush recruitment posters. <BR/>2. Less arrogance and stupidity = less chance for bombings. <BR/>3. The rhetoric of "the enemy" does not match my own (please read post again). <BR/>4. Anyone would be tougher on "terror" than Bush -- he has just made things worse. <BR/>5. The UN follows the lead of a U.S. that the world can respect, not the other way around. <BR/>6. The first dirty bomb anywhere should be prevented with good police work and asses should be kicked of whoever manages to set one off. <BR/>7. "capitulate our responsibility"? With all the death we have caused to innocent civilians, watch out who you are accusing of forgetting mass graves -- they are still being filled. <BR/>8. "King Soros"? You wish. <BR/>9. I didn't backstab anyone -- I'm trying to get them out of harm's way. It you who wants them out there in the shooting gallery, for no good reason.<BR/><BR/>You said a mouthful, my friend. Please keep it up. With "thoughts" like this, in 2008 we are going to kick your ass into the next century. If then.Mike Plaistedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18184502941014520240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-69156926981582937852007-09-10T22:16:00.000-05:002007-09-10T22:16:00.000-05:00There goes mike and his twin Other Side. All emoti...There goes mike and his twin Other Side. All emotional BS. Sure we'll go appologize to the dead and maimed, all of them throughout history, but at least to us they are real people, to you all they are only Bush Agenda. <BR/><BR/>Go on and tell yourself that Al Queda doesn't hope and pray that there is a Move-on candidate in 08. Go on and try to convince yourselves that your words don't prompt bombings. (and yes, plaisted, there is a storm coming, but your left will have lond since crippled us) Just focus a little more anger on Bush. Just challenge the integrity of a few more generals. May be you'll get what you want. Just smile in private while your leaders comment in public that setbacks in Iraq are quickly made into gains at the pulls--but anyone who challenges your patriotism by pointing out where the rehtoric of the enemy matches your own doesn't grasp the obvious truth. Just tell everyone how Clinton or obama would be tough on terror and protect us from SUV's and corporate profits, and fatty foods, and smoking bans. We'll sleep much better. Tell us how we should fall on our knees at the UN where Iran and Cuba control the human rights council. Tell us how retreat from Iraq will make the next ruwanda or darfur less likely. Tell us how the first dirty bomb in New York should be met with swift condemnation, and the second with a pause for introspection. Tell us how we should lie down and capitulate our responsibility like the other failed nations who, like the new Britan, are too impotent to be outraged while the mass graves of Iraq slowly fade into memory. Tell us of the glorious new progressive ideal--perpetual investigation and rumors of impeachment while your Billionaire King Soros manipulates the fortunes of millions and convinces you he's the good capitalist. Keep it all rolling, and for your opus mundi, claim you have the authority to speak for the dead and maimed who you backstabbed from the start. It just rolls on and on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-3263792071700505362007-09-10T18:38:00.000-05:002007-09-10T18:38:00.000-05:00Your return comment is exactly why it's useless to...Your return comment is exactly why it's useless to engage in discussion.<BR/><BR/>You want the dems to pull your lame asses out of the fire you created. It took six years of conservative incompetence to get us where we are today ... you expect miracles within eight months or so.<BR/><BR/>If only you had listened to the professionals rather than charging straight ahead ... thousands of lives later and over half the nations on this planet alienated ... hey, great strategy!Other Sidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06475658453374184885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20755638.post-31865259729373764832007-09-10T18:33:00.000-05:002007-09-10T18:33:00.000-05:00Yeah, Anony, all I do is complain about the bone-h...Yeah, Anony, all I do is complain about the bone-headed moves the Bushies have made that will forever stain our stature in the world community. Never mind how we got into Iraq! We broke it, you fix it! <BR/><BR/>Here's a fix for you: Just Get Out. Get a cab. Make like a tree and leave. Hit the long dirty road back to Kuwait. Try not to let the door hit us on the way out.<BR/><BR/>Iraq has always been ruled by the biggest son-of-a-bitch in the land -- Hussein was nothing new. Now that we have opened the door to a theocracy -- something Hussein would never allow -- we will get one. Let's get out of the way and see who it is. We might get to keep the giant base and embassy the contractors are building for us there, but not for long. The theocracy might look like Iran, or worse. Israel will be less secure and the Middle East will be far less stable than it was before we bumbled in.<BR/><BR/>And, you know what, Anony? Even if it doesn't happen now, it will happen in two or five or ten years. Whenever we are ready to let it happen. Whenever we are sick of our Unnecessary Dead on our doorsteps; when enough limbs of our brave soldiers have been scattered in the desert sand.<BR/><BR/>What I want to know is: where will you be when it's over, when the folly is evident even to you? I suggest we get you and all the other name-calling Bush-enablers in a room with all those who suffered so much pain because of your Stupid War. The families, the soldiers with one or two or three or four missing limbs. We'll pair you up with one of the guys who was maimed this week and maybe the families of the seven troops who were killed just today; make sure they were killed or injured during this period of time, when people like you are still spinning, still excusing, still blaming other people for the foolish choices of your precious Bushies. <BR/><BR/>Let's see how you fare trying to get out of that room, Anony. Just remember, however bad it is, it will be nothing like the hell you vistited on them by your adherence to the absurd Bush agenda.Mike Plaistedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18184502941014520240noreply@blogger.com