Monday, June 25, 2007

Gun Play in the Outer-City: Where’s the Outrage?

The sound of gunshots shut down a local festival on Saturday. Five people have been arrested; one charged with trying to grab an officer’s gun.

Sure, you say, probably just another sad story from some ironically-titled "Jam for Peace" rap-fest at the Ampitheater or the Rave or something. And this, after the shocking aftermath of the Juneteenth celebration. What is wrong with these people? Let’s get Charlie Sykes to run another e-mail from David Clarke so we can get on with the solution to this vexing problem.

But, no. It happened at the Country USA Music Festival in Oshkosh. Violence at the whitest music event in Wisconsin in one of the many whitest parts of the state.

I have searched high and (really) low on the wing-nut blogs to find any reference to this outrageous criminal behavior. No sanctimonious clucking about values and broken homes. No call for action to Stop the Violence and save the broken community. No lashing out at Journal Sentinel columnists who are insufficiently demanding of family values, reform and tough law enforcement in their constituent community. Mike Nichols – come out, come out, wherever you are!

But, nothing. Not from Sykes, McBride, Robinson – even the often-thoughtful Esenberg. Forget the weekend – if this had happened with black people in Milwaukee on Saturday, they would have all left their Sunday picnics to wring their hands over their keyboards about the sad community in which they don’t live. All of the above had a field day over the attack on a motorist by stupid kids after the Juneteenth celebration on Thursday. That unfortunate event played right into their – yes – racist tripe about how bad things are in the City and how only Clarence Thomas wannabees like Sheriff Clarke and the newly-anointed OK-black-guy James Harris can save us, er, them.

But white gun-play outside the City? If they talk about the Oshkosh violence at all this week, the radio and blog wing-nuts will make excuses for the landowner next-door to the festival, talk about Second Amendment "rights", blame the concert promoter for not making peace with the guy before the event. It will be portrayed as an isolated incident in an otherwise law-abiding community. The only Milwaukee TV cameras pointed that way will be those looking to see if the corn really is knee-high this July 4th.

Both the Juneteenth and the country music festival had this in common: Both were overwhelmingly positive and peaceful. Both were marred by unfortunate violent events by bad actors. The vast majority of those attending both events were law-abiding and meant nobody any harm.

But, there is a double-standard for the agenda-driven wing-nuts, who will pretend to get hysterical about violence in one place and ignore even worse violence (there were no guns fired in the Juneteenth incident) in another. Remember Mayfair? Last I heard, there were just as many police calls to Bayshore and Brookfield Square. But that doesn’t fit in their small box, so, never mind.

The fact is that much more of society is broken-down besides Milwaukee’s Inner City. Jobs have been lost, the health care system is broken and rural frustration is as real as any other kind. As long as we fall into the phony Us v. Them mentality of the right-wing crisis-mongers, nothing will be solved. But they’re not looking for solutions. The wing-nuts thrive by division. They could care less about what is really going on in the Inner City. It is just something they drive by. Talk about your "drive-by" media...


EddyPo said...

Perfect timing on this post. I just had a discussion with a co-worker who chided me for living in dangerous Milwaukee. Turns out crime is everywhere. You wouldn't know it listening to the drooling righties.

Anonymous said...

Yep, the per capita murder rates in Portage and Delavan are higher than Milwaukee's, but we don't hear that, either. There was an interview a few days ago with the next-door neighbor of the horror house in Delavan, who said that she moved there to get away from all that big-city crime. I felt sorry for her, hearing that from my Milwaukee neighborhood where we've lived for years and heard a gunshot only once. (It was shot in the air by a white kid from a "good home," btw.)

We had more gunfire when I lived in a suburb here. And when I lived in the ex-urbs here, we had to deal with crazy hunters resentful that "their" hunting land had become a housing area, so they just kept showing up every year, carrying guns past our kitchen. . . .

babblemur said...

Just a few notes on this - the shooting didn't shut down the festival. Police went in and arrested five people.

The main guy involved is 74 years old, he has been pissed off that they moved the "Country USA" festival grounds adjacent to his property south of Oshkosh from the beginning over a year ago. He complained constantly to the police about the noise, particularly the helicopter rides that would carry passengers over his land and hover over his house.

Apparently he finally had it and the rumor is that he was trying to shoot the amplifiers and equipment.

Your point about misapplication of standards is right on though. In Oshkosh, however, we tend to get people attacking each other with shovels, knifes, cinderblocks, and domestic murder-suicides.

If the guns were off the streets of Milwaukee, you would probably have a lot more shovel battles and stabbings which tend to have lower mortality rates among their victims.

Anonymous said...

Hmmm...Maybe if you ever read the newspaper and saw that there are about 4-5 shootings in Milwaukee every day or two you would understand why some 74-year old grump shooting his gun at a bunch of drunkards is not nearly as big of a deal. It IS an isolated incident you imbecile. I understand where your going with all of this. Yes indeed, racism still exists today, arguably in the media above all else. However, instead of yelling "Hypocrisy" at the first chance you get, why don't you write a piece about the needs to address the important issues facing inner-city Milwaukee today. The reason why gun violence in the black community is so prevalent in the news is because it is a prevalent phenomenon. Of course hypocrisy exists, but don't overlook reality just for an excuse to proclaim it. I'm out.

Anonymous said...

Keep telling yourself there's no trouble in the inner city. Just keep telling yourself that. You can't lie to yourself.

Anonymous said...

Yes, there is hypocrisy but it within people like you. You seem to worked up about this isolated incident but I don't see you talking about the daily murders, and robberies that take place in inner city. It is true that there are dysfunctional families and crime in every racial/ethnic group. But we have to look at their percentages in their total community. And if you want to blame economic condition, here is an interesting fact for you. The majority of the poor people in this country are actually white. Of course, blacks are overrepresented compared to their total population. So why isn't their so high crime rate among whites. You may feel that their is more white people killing each other and robbing people but it is not based on facts. I would also be interested to know whether you live in an inner city neighborhood. If there is same level of crime outside of inner city, why do people like you don't want to live there.

Jerid said...

Delevan and Portage is worse than Milwaukee? Yeah okay.
Murder, Attempted Murder, Drugs, Rape, Assaults, Armed Robbery... take all those and compare it to any other city in WI... I think Racine is known as the next biggest shithole in Wisconsin.
Grumpy old man fires shots on HIS property (not at the festival, he didn't have a ticket, he wasn't enjoying music or activities). Grumpy old man firing shots... Eugene Kane makes mention simply trying to settle the critics down from the lovely festical on June 19th where party goers beat the shit out of an innocent man driving down the street. Shootings happen everywhere people... it's just they happen daily, if not twice or more daily in Milwaukee. So you're going to compare daily murders and rapes in a run down piece of shit city run by black thugs to a country fest shooting that NEVER happened at the festival or by a party goer?! Whatever makes you all feel better about Milwaukee.
For the moron who tried to compare Portage and Delevan to Milwaukee... HA! Where's the numbers? Why is Milwaukee in the top 50 most crime ridden cities if Delevan and Portage are worse? Funny I just looked and per population ratio Milwaukee is the number 32 and Racine 37 highest murder ranked city in the US! I didn't see Portage or Delevan in the top 100 list posted.
Do some research before you spit out false facts.

Anonymous said...

The wing-nuts have arrived *LOL*

I knew this was going to draw "angry white man" out of his cave, ranting and hollering about those "horrible black people" and their high murder rates.

I love these people who can't stop complaining about these "thug filled neighborhoods" but live about as far away from them as they possibly can.

Y'all are probably the same people that get upset when our soldiers are shot at in Iraq despite the fact we've illegally invaded their country and murdered thousands of innocent Iraqis.

May God have mercy on your souls, and keep praying that he rewards your ignorance.

Sean Chak said...

Plaisted, you are so off-base it is laughable. Keep reaching, kid.

Anonymous said...

When Oshkosh starts getting people shooting each other everyday. I'll be outraged, until then lets focus where the real problems lie.

By the way, did anyone of you who are saying see told ya so white people are douing it too actually bother researching this story at all

Or I dont know watch the news last night, channel 6 FOX had it as a top story. It wasnt ignored. Nice try though, you might be able to fool the people who pay no attention and just react into believeing it was swept under the rug...

Anonymous said...

hilarious how this article was written by a criminal defense attorney in milwaukee. trying to get clients, hey?
it doesn't take much of a brain to see the differences here, although the us against them attitude that some ( including said author ) has used is the most racist part of this entire story.
thanks Kane for further helping with race relations in milwaukee.

Anonymous said...

If you can't see the difference between a man protecting his property and a group of people randomly beating and innocent man, I seriously question your mental capacity.

Anonymous said...

Only a mentally incapacitated man would refer to the thugs who beat an innocent motorist as "kids". See the video of the racist attack by those thugs against an innocent man.

Mike Plaisted said...

Jeez, it looks like I touched a nerve here. Good.

I do notice that several commenters have done what I predicted -- minimized the violent acts of "some 74-year old grump shooting his gun at a bunch of drunkards" and blaming the gunplay on the festival organizers.

But, the humorless suburban scolds missed the point of the post, as usual. Concern about whatever is going on in Milwaukee is fine -- I never said or would say that Milwaukee doesn't have its problems -- but the wing-nuts couldn't care less about the real problems. They just need an incident to hang on the city as a bad place to be that can't get its act together. That's why a sad attack on an innocent motorist gets more play than gun-play further north.

If I wanted to, I could try to use the confluence of country music and gun nuts to make a point about, well, country music and gun nuts. But I don't because it wouldn't be fair and would diminish the more serious issues involved. The wing-nuts don't care about being fair or how much damage they do to the community fabric -- they just want to make their racist points to placate their target demographics.

There have been people working for decades to solve inner city problems in Milwaukee, including those of social and economic justice. Perfection has hardly been achieved, but I don't expect it to -- ever. That's the nature of the challenge. But I'd much rather have them keep trying in good faith than listen to a bunch of opportunistic radio racists whoare just trying to stir the pot of racial division.

Anonymous said...

Sir, gimme a break. If it wasn't for the link in Eugene Kane's column do you think anyone would have actually given a rat's ass about your blog? Way to call out all the "humorless suburban scolds." I'm sure you live in the ghetto, right? I'm perfectly fine with you calling me a racist because that just proves how ignorant you are. I have black friends and acquaintances who are appalled at what happens in their communities.

Just please think rationally about this: An old man loses his temper and does something really, REALLY stupid. On the other hand, there are entire sections of this city that no one would ever dare step foot in, and it happens to be that they are predominantly African-American communities. Of course this is more indicative of a VERY small percentage of people who ruin everything for everyone else, but the fact remains, it is simply not going to be some major controversy when an old man fires his gun angrily into a group of festival goers. It is an unfortunate incidence. Would the story really have been any different if it was an old black man? Another unfortunate incidence is that violence is a disease that is killing communities in the city of Milwaukee, exemplified by the daily barrage of violent news items which emanate from those areas. All your talk about "wing nuts" and what-nots is not relevant. As mentioned, you can thank Eugene Kane for your 15 minutes of fame.

Mike Plaisted said...

Hey, Eugene Kane linked to me! Cool! I didn't notice before. He is the most important writer on racial issues in the city. I'm glad he thinks my ideas had some validity.

As David Byrne once sand "Lived in a brownstone/Lived in the ghetto/I lived all over this town." And I have. I lived in Riverwest for several years; worked on 6th and Vine in my early 20s, drove a cab all over for a time.

Now, as a criminal defense lawyer, most of my clients live in the inner city and I get in those neighborhoods at least once a week. There are no neighborhoods that you can't go into in Milwaukee. Sure, at the rare wrong time you can get caught between groups of stupid kids with petty vendetas. But inner city neighborhoods have lots of "eyes on the street" and lots of people committed to making things better.

You can't be serious saying the Oshkosh shooting wouldn't have made more noise if the shooter was an old black guy. We have all heard about how the Delavan murder/suicider was supposedly an illegal immigrant, right? The racial (and racist) angle is always there to be played. And the wing-nuts are way too willing to play it.

I'm not calling you a racist, brother. Unless, Anony, your name is Sykes or Belling. Then you are.

Anonymous said...

Mike Plaisted...another white guy that don't know shit. One day you will and then it will most likely be to late... Oh well.

Mike Plaisted said...

Ah, Anony...unknown wimp who can't even come out and tell us who he is. The brave, the bomb-throwing....It seems it's already too late for you.

amy, milwaukee said...

i previously posted above with the comment saying that there is an obvious difference between cases and the quip about the criminal defense attorney. I regret my dry sarcasm with that statement.
i would like to point out that while the blogger has some wit and good points, the way you call people childish names ( wingnuts i believe was the term ) and such like ( humourless suburban scolding ) takes away your credibility.
what the man did in the country was stupid, he should be charged with reckless endangerment. He didn't shoot at anybody, he shot in the air, like MANY do by the way on the fourth of july with their guns in celebration. What the men did to the man in his car was sick and cruel, and they should be charged with attempted murder, regardless of race.
Nice quip about country music and guns, that made me laugh.
Howevor, the disease spreading through our lovely city is no laughing matter, it is terminal, and we need not to point fingers but call the moral ambulances before many of us end up in caskets, which by the way, are buried forevor, no matter what color you are.
Violence needs to stop. I have worked with teens in the inner city for years. Many of them are afraid walking home from school. We need to find a solution, not brew up a race war. we need to come together before we die together.

Anonymous said...

Only a wing-nut liberal/socialist like Mike Plaisted would try and parlay a random story about a solitary old man 90 miles away into a anti-conservative, hate speech rant against a perceived right-leaning local media (unbelievably laughable) and alleged local racists who were up in arms about the Juneteenth beating.

What happened in Milwaukee on Juneteenth Day was downright sickening. What happened in Oshkosh was a pittance in comparison, like apples to gum wrappers.

But alas, any opportunity to label the likes of Belling/Sykes/conservatives as racists while being a marionette for the likes of Kane/McNally/McGee trumps all, including and especially the facts.

Anonymous said...

i understand the point you are trying to make, but you really need to practice staying on point, and not using toss away comments and sarcasm. those are tools of the weak.

for example, the comment about comparing country music and gun nuts. who knows if the guy with the guns likes country music? he wasn't at the festival. maybe he loves metallica. maybe he loves classical. who knows?

is this a big deal? not really. but if your point is to tell the truth, and not to just try and pick fights with your 'enemies', then you should stick to facts and stay away from the little digging comments.

or you could just stoop to their level, your call.

Anonymous said...

What a free-for-all of posters who refuse to address Plaisted's point -- not about newspaper or tv coverage but about . . . conservative blogs.

Stay on point, yourselves, people. Explain why this incident in Oshkosh was not written about in your conservative blogs, which have had plenty of tossed-off posts about -- since this is all that the Oshkosh incident was, you claim -- weirdos, oddities in the news, etc.

So if the old guy in Oshkosh was covered with tattoos, he would have been covered in the conservative blogs, too? Is that it? Explain.

Mike Plaisted said...

Anony 10:35 has some good points. "We need to find a solution, not brew up a race war." she says, which has been my point all along. My point from the beginning has been that opportunistic politicians like David Clarke and radio/blog wing-nuts (name-calling, she complains, but the term is my chosen short-hand and is specific to right-wing mouthpieces who are on GOP talking points) use events like the post-Juneteenth beating as jumping-off points for what is ultimately a racist attempt to minimize inner city residents and play divide-and-conquer politics with those trying to make a difference. It is they who are promoting division and dancing with dangerous race-war notions.

But, please, let's not exaggerate. What is going on in the inner city is not "terminal" to the future of the city or anything else. For every bad thing that happens, ten other good things are going on, especially in the summer, when activists, volunteers and summer workers take to the streets to keep the kids busy. The city can't and won't fail. There are too many good people here. Law enforcement should do their job, and they do, to bring law breakers to justice. Community leaders should bring people together to make their own neighborhoods safer, by "eyes on the street" and rejection of the "no snitching" nonsense (which, by the way, is overplayed by the wing-nuts -- the State has few problems getting people come to court to testify against my clients in serious cases).

As for Anony 11:41, my favorite comment is lumping me in not only with Kane and McNally (a level of accomplishment and wisdom I aspire to) and -- wait for it -- Michael McGee. This is the sort of stuff the wing-nuts do when they can't get a decent argument together (which is often) -- guilt by association, even when there is no association. It says a lot more about their desperate cluelessness than it ever could about me.

Anonymous said...

Mike Plaisted, how would you notice that Eugene Kane linked to this blog? I am sure that you get this much traffic and these many comments on your post everyday. And if so many of your clients live in inner city, why don't you move there? It would be very convenient for you. I am more interested about where you live know rather where you once lived. I am sure you live out there in the suburbs in your big house. And then you talk about the racist right wing people in the suburbs. People like you would never live in the inner city even though you claim that it doesn't have higher crime rate than outer city. The people who point this out are not racists. The real racists are the people who beat an innocent Indian man because he appeared like an "Arab" to them. If the police wouldn't have arrived, this man would been killed by these thugs. These are the racists that you want to portray as "kids".

Real Wisconsin News said...

Mike I wouldn't be proud that Eugene "linked" to your blog. He is in the top 2 of people who make racial diversity worse in Milwaukee. He whines and cries about it and points his finger at whitey for everything. Eugene Kane could shit in a box, set it on fire, throw it on your porch, and then he'd write an article on how it was whitey's fault.
What's funny is you're doing the same thing as Eugene... if they don't agree with you; you're accusing people of being racists. It's a joke. Old man firing shots... he's a moron plain and simple. He deserves to be charged with a crime. HOWEVER he wasn't at the festival so don't even put him in the same class as country music goers. Why is this portion not being said... he WAS NOT a party goer. He was on his property pissed about the party. He wasn't a party goer who decided to assault a police officer or ass thump a passing motorist AT THE FESTIVAL! He was a random shooter on his property... just like all the other knuckleheads that do random shootings in this state on a daily basis. The news doesn't spend time on every single gun shot fired in Milwaukee and every crime committed... if that was the case we'd be watching the news from 6-10:30 non-stop just to cover certain parts of Milwaukee. As for the Delevan murder... how can you even bring that up? The man slaughtered 6 people including a set of babies... that's national news. I don’t care if he’s white, black, brown, or green! I think they spent just as much time on the Portage nut cakes. Guess what... they're white. The problem is you're trying to compare a man shooting a gun (daily event) to a festival beat down & assaulted cop at a festival that is known for this yearly!
It's funny though and explains a lot that you're proud to have been linked by a racist, hypocrite who causes more diversity in the city of Milwaukee in a week than most can do in a year.

Z man said...

This is insane. How can you compare something that has never happened before and has a good chance of never happening again (the Country Music Festival shooting anomaly) to the insane street violence that lines the inner city streets of Milwaukee every day? The violence of the Juneteenth Day celebration is not an isolated event, it is a daily occurrence on the streets of Milwaukee. Most inner city residents are good people who, if you actually take the time to actually ask them, are scared to sit on their porches of their own houses. They are scared to let their children play outside. This is sad and there are a ton of people trying to make it better.

The Country Music Festival is an isolated event. Just because there was a shooting involved does not mean you can compare the two as similar types of violence. The reason "wingnuts" always talk about the inner city is because this is where the most extreme violence is and this is where it needs to be addressed. An anomaly, such as the music festival, does not need to be addressed, because it is an isolated crazy old man. It is not a problem of the society up there. There are not crazy old men shooting at all concerts every day. If this becomes the case, then start comparing the lack of news coverage.

Do not compare the types of violence that occurs in the cities with the types of violence that occur in the suburbs. There for sure is violence in the suburbs (DVs, assaults, etc). But when was the last time an innocent child got shot while jumping rope in their front lawn in oh...lets say...Mukwonago or Oconomowoc or Brookfield. Oh that's right, rare to never, because the violence that occurs in those places is GENERALLY limited to people who know each other and really does not cause neighbors to fear for their safety. The violence in Milwaukee affects the quality of life for all the surrounding neighbors in the neighborhood because it is so random and there are so many innocent, helpless victims. That is why it is talked about more. That is why it is debated so much. That is why people want to move out of some areas of Milwaukee as soon as they can. It is because most of the time, they are helpless to do anything, no matter how hard they are trying. This is not to say they want to move out of Milwaukee, but just to different areas with less violence.

So lets not compare apples and oranges. If you want to get angry about the lack of news coverage for the Country Music Festival that is your right. But lets just face it, if you were that guy in the car that was beaten, I bet you would rather be at any Country Music Festival than in the middle of that near riot after Juneteenth had ended...even if you dislike country music.

Z man said...

Read Patrick McIlheran's blog "The Guns of Oshkosh" -

I think it pretty much sums up what all us so-called "wingnuts" are trying to make a point about.

Anonymous said...

Why don't you say what you've all been thinking?

Z man said...

^Because most of us are not ignorant.

Anonymous said...

I wonder what would have happened to this pissed off white farmer if he had tried to shut down a rap show.Im sure Mr Kane and those like him, who cant face the truth and constantly deny where the problem is, would somehow find a way to justify it after the farmer was beaten to a pulp and riddled with bullets.

Trevin said...

I love it when white middle-aged men try to speak for my people. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and the idea that you are a lawyer who deals with inner-city clients on a near daily basis only shows how much you are part of the problem, not the solution. My best friend works for a local firm that almost exclusively seeks out cases from poor, inner city people of color, and that is one of the things that real stand up black citizens of this city call using our tragedy for your benefit. So your attempts at liberal, Berkley-type preaching just does not fly for me.

In no way does some old farmer shooting off a gun in the country even come close to being a parallel to the violence that I face EVERY DAY in my INNER CITY neighborhood. You say that you lived in River West? Yes, a lot of liberal white folks live in River West and that does not mean that you are in any way sharing in the pain of black people in this city. When I was renting a house on Holton and Burleigh when I was in college, my landlord lived in River West. Actually she was a slumlord who took advantage of poor black people the way that you do. The border is drawn around River West the same way the border is drawn around Wauwatosa or Brookfield, so your attempts at empathy for blacks folk does not fly.

There are many, many black folks in this city who share my views about the knuckleheads that continue to live the stereotypes that so many before us died to break down. What would Dr. King or DuBois think about those thugs who ruined what should have been a day of celebrating our freedom from shackles and forced labor? Would they be as kind and gentle in describing such barbaric behavior by our own people? Or would they have called them out and ridiculed them for not presenting themselves with pride, dignity and self control? King knew that the worst thing that could happen to our people was to re-enforce those negative stereotypes, through our own behavior, that proclaimed black males to be sex crazed, violent lunatics that wanted to rape white women. He implored black folks to go the extra mile when it came to smashing the power of those very stereotypes, and based this on the non-violent foundation that he used to organize all of his protests against racism and segregation. That, my fellow American, is the basis of the problems that my people are experiencing today, only tenfold.

The events at Juneteenth Day were disgusting and embarrassing to me as a black man. I will never take the route that excuses such violence and hatred with a socio-economic slant that uses racism as its main prop. Blacks have been poor throughout the history of this country, and until the last twenty or so years have risen above poverty by being proud and moral people. Of course rap music was not around to send such a false and dangerous message to our youth. As poor as we may have been, we never allowed that poverty to define the quality of person. Mother’s cared about their children; Fathers were actually around to show a young boy how to become a prideful black man. That is gone now in our community, and we have no one to blame but ourselves. White racism did not cause those thugs, not children as you try to dismiss the event as, to act like ANIMALS and beat that poor man up. Isn’t it ironic that on a day that celebrates freedom from bondage for our people, some of our own youth decided to put someone else in bondage??? Those individuals may very well already be lost souls. That is the other sad part of this story.

Your twists and turns of two different events to satisfy your own white guilt are sad and misguided. How about an essay on how rap music warps the minds of our youth? How about an essay on how a no-snitching mentality is crippling our neighborhoods and bringing fear into the hearts of those who would like to step forward and be a new voice of hope and dreams? How about getting our youth in church so they can learn that there is a way to achieve dreams and goals in this post Brown era??? What do I care about some old white farmer in Oshkosh when I see dreams dashed every day right on my own block? Trusting white folks to help us has never worked, so excuse me if I find your points to be somewhat lacking in any real power. You slam David Clarke….but he is the only black man in this city who has the nerve to speak out against our own people!! And surprise, he is there at church every Sunday. King saw the power of faith in our people, and before King, faith is the only thing that gave us hope as a people in bondage. More black people in this city agree with that man then you will ever know, and to be so negative against him only makes us true, hard working, law abiding black citizens question your motives. White guilt and being truly proactive are two different things…I only wish that you knew that.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Z Man. I've been following this shit since Eugene Kane provided the link. Plaisted is exemplary of what is wrong with much of our country. He would rather gain the acclaim of minorities than actually think about how illogical his stance is. As for Eugene Kane, he is not the problem here. I look forward to Kane's columns everyday because he is a keen writer who normally is spot on with his analysis. However, in this case he did himself no favor by linking his column with the likes of Plaisted.

Simply stated: while the black community does have deep-seated and multifaceted reasons for its plight, not all of which is even there fault, it is plainly irresponsible to jump on the hypocrisy, racism, etc. bandwagon every time something bad happens in white social contexts (Yeehaw, country music).

Anonymous said...


Well said. I wonder how Mr. "tough-guy living in Riverwest" Plaisted will respond. I'll check after lunch, surely he'll have something idiotic to say.

Ambulance Chaser said...

If you really are an attorney, you should know the many fallacious qualities of your argument.

The very premises on which you built your argument are almost entirely untrue. For instance, you claim "shootings" are treated differently by media outlets based on whether those "shootings" happen in Milwaukee or in the suburbs or outlying towns. What that dishonestly asserts is that "a shooting"--an injury caused by a firearm--is the same as "shooting"--discharging a firearm.

No, one man firing a weapon was not widely covered by local news organizations. I challenge you to name the last time such an event was widely covered. Anywhere.

Next, you equate the single discharge of a weapon on property located next to the County USA Music Festival, by someone not at said festival... with a mob attack at (You claim "after". It wasn't.) the Juneteenth celebrations, by people who attended those celebrations.

If that wasn't enough, you then try to up the ante by claiming that the "shooting" is "worse" than the beating! Now, if I wanted to be as presumptive as the "wingnut" who runs this blog, I might ask: "Is the 'shooting' worse because white people COULD have been injured, but a brown man WAS injured in the beating???"

And just to close this out, framing your argument with half-truths isn't fair either. There ARE more police calls to Mayfair Mall. The number of calls per customer are roughly the same as other malls in the area, but ignoring that important difference just so you can call someone racist is bigoted itself.

If you're ready to give up on defense work, I hear they're looking for a new prosecutor in Durham, North Carolina!

Danny P said...

Michael, my old friend -

Oh, the subtle ironies of life. I find your bog only while choking on a McIlheran column, which I read for sport. Bush's legacy lies degrading in a thousand blood stains on the streets of Bagdad, yet seemingly intelligent scribes are oblivious.
Keep up the good work. You gained a loyal reader today,courtesy of
Paddy boy. Bushpig is 7/27 @ the Squires. See you there.

Anonymous said...

Im not a lawer but I did live in Rivewest for 13 years. After an incident last April on Locust Street between myself and 3 punks with guns I decided it was time to go. This was the last straw. The next day 15 cowards beat a kid to death at a bus stop. and so on. I find my place in the tennessee hills an intersting contrast to what I left behind on Humboldt and Locust. Plenty of black folk here, and yes there are some problems, but there sure isnt the killing Like I witnessed in Milwaukee. I have lived here over a year and not once has anyone whipped me the finger on the freeway, not once have i been awoken by gunfire and sirens. As far as Im concerned, you need to be somewhat of a tough guy in Riverwest. I have seen the punks cross Holton to many times wishing to do whatever it is they do. I didnt want any of the black mans "pain" as you so call it. Keep your "pain" on the west side of Holton along with your guns, knives and bats.

Trevin said...

Now THAT's racism!!!! Thank God you are in Tennessee, or The Durty as they like to call it. Like it or not....the black man's pain is intertwined with the history of this country. We sure did not chose to have this pain passed down through many generations....or did we???? Personal responsibility is very different from your racist ranting about pain or whatever you want to classify it as.

Anonymous said...

Trevin... Thats "your people's" problem. You can shoot up the city but someone shoots their mouth off, you scream racism. I am not a racist. Just some Riverwest tough guy who looked down the barrels of two of your "pain-stricken" brothers who had no respect for anyone or any thing. Why did I not get shot, you ask? I simply ran one down with my car. Oh, he's ok. He was well enough to get up and shoot my back window out. And what was I doing to provoke this? Driving to work. THis was the second time I was "randomly" selected to participate in a racist ghetto game on the streets of Milwaukee. Both times outnumbered and outgunned. I am blessed to be alive and not another victim on the homocide chalkboard. I think most of your "pain" is self inflicted, since your "people" for the most part, take it out on one another, then use it to justify the "Quiet Riot".

Anonymous said...

Hey, what do you know...3 shootings in Milwaukee over the last 24 hours. But hey, lets talk about hypocrisy instead. MORONS!!!!!

Anonymous said...

The sad part is that tomorrow by this time there will likely be three more shootings in Milwaukee.

Trevin said...

Hey Man-Who-Doesn’t-Use-Name:

First off, before you run off at the mouth with your justifications of your hateful words, perhaps you should look at my initial post and recognize that you are not talking to some little hood rat thug, but an educated black man who probably reads and writes better than you do.

How’s this for “Your People” generalizations:

You people for too long think that you have some sort of entitlement that no one else in this country is privileged to have. Especially the White Male.

Whites for too long have looked to abuse the lesser standing of anyone who is not white.

White males have small penises and are jealous of “Us People” because of that.

White males hate it when we sleep with white women.

All whites think all blacks are criminal in nature.

There are no poor white people.

These are a few of the things that I feel about “Your People”

Are you serious, everything from your tone and your played out generalizations sound exactly like the garbage I just wasted my time writing. Can you believe, for even one second, that there are many middle class, God fearing black folks in this country who do not act like the animals that you claim us to be? So you got shot at…..oh my God….stop the world….a white man got shot at!!!! My question to you would be what were you doing in a situation like that in the first place? I have lived in the central city my whole life and I have NEVER been shot at. Buying drugs perhaps….or a prostitute??? You said it yourself….black people stay west of Holton…right??? Well, what in the hell were you doing in that neighborhood? Because, according to you, black folk should stay in the ghetto….stay poor…and use guns, knives and bats to terrorize white folks. Those are your own words. I love to confront racists like you because you try to come across as so educated and so social conscience. But in my eyes you are no better than Bull Conner, that slimy sheriff of Birmingham who filled his jail with black folks who just wanted to share the lunch counter at Woolworths. No, your not racist at all…….just keep us away from you and you will be fine. I just wonder what level of education that you received in your lifetime. From your words and ideology I can only assume not very far. Luckily the white folks I know actually feel very comfortable in a room full of black people….how would you fare in that same situation? Stay in Tennessee and remember to display your hood fully as you drive through your trailer park. And read a book once in a while about true black folks. May I suggest “The Souls of Black Folks” by WEB Dubois….. or “Letter from a Birmingham Jail” by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, one of the greatest Americans to ever live. Or is he just good for gun and knife play while he tries to steal your white women??

Anonymous said...

Just because you say you have never been shot at says something. Now if we can just educate some more of your people and the shooting will stop. What "neghborhood" are you refering to. Im coming up there for a bachelor party and will be looking for some hookers and a bunch of blow.
The incidents I spoke of didnt happen there. It happened in Riverwest where most of the tough guys live, except for the ones packin' in that neghborhood you mentioned. Sorry this post is full of fancy bullshit words only the educated tend to use. It doesnt take a degree to not get shot at, kicked in the head or whatever. For your imformation, I do have black FRIENDS that didnt get to be my friends by shooting at me. They are educated and do not see in color. I wont comment on the penis thing. It say alot about you all by itself.

Trevin said...

Seve..... it is very common for white MALES who claim to not see in color to mention right away that they have 'black friends' I lived on Holton for two years while I was in graduate school, in the heart of that war zone, and I was never, ever disrespected or attacked. again, you state that you got shot at on your way to work??? I just find that very hard to believe, but then again, according to your ideology, i shouldn't think that much of you because "You People" are always making up stories about "Us People". Your ignorance is one thing, but your lack of seeing beyond the blinders that you wear is a sad, sad thing. I could waste my time trying to change your mind, but at the end of the day I understand that you are the most dangerous type of racist. You claim to not see color, claim to have some black friends, but you still want all of us to stay in our own neighborhoods and not date your daughters. The penis comment....if you cannot recognize literary sarcasim, then I apologize for going over your head with such big, scary words. On a side note...I would think that your time in the south would have eased your fears and allow you to be more vocal and upfront with your racism. instead you still hide behind the common tricks that your kind always use. How about this.....tell your "black friends" that even though you claim to be their friend, they should stay on their side of the tracks and not event hink about bettering their own lives by living in a middle class setting. Tell them that you are only afraid of the guns, bats and knives that they will surely bring with them.

Anonymous said...

Yeah... I guess youre right. Gotta go now... Im installing a gun rack in my pickup. Its got a great bumper sticker that says "If I would have known this, I would have picked my own damn cotton."

Trevin said...

You are a lost soul.....much like the thugs who run around trying to intimidate people with violence anf gesturing. And it is such a shame to. I will pray for you...that is for sure. But perhaps what it will take at the end of the day to stop you from your ignorant generalizations is that if you have a daughter, she will fall in love with a black man. Perhaps a professor of Africology or sociology or gender studies. Then you would be forced to recognize that we are not all gun totting gangster wannabes. Sometimes that is the only thing that can save one from themselves. Enjoy your life of hate and generalizations. I never a registered Republican....that I would have to explain why someone is so ignorant. I gues we really are the party of freedom equality after all.

Anonymous said...

Seve and Trevin:

Way to go gentlemen, you've managed to turn this blog into a race war. Plaisted will probably have something witty to say about all of this.

Z man said...

Another great read: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s "Why We Can't Wait." It should be a mandatory read in all middle schools across the country. Dr. King was one of the greatest leaders of all time. He is one of the few who actually knew how to bring people together for a just cause rather than separating them with words of hate and fear. God bless his soul.

Anonymous said...

It seems you are the one who cant recognize literary humor. I apologize for appearing to hating you or any other of your people. That was not my intention. It seems we have go a bit of the course set earlier by this blog by lauching tinted opinions at each other. I comes down to this. Farmers are not going around shooting and beating people, thus making the Oshkosh incident an isolated one. You know as well as I do. You can draw a border around the "neghborhood" on a map and 8 of 10 gun incidents in Milwaukee will happen within that border. From Holton to 76th, from the valley to Good Hope, the same bullshit happens day after day with no end in site. Wow another victim, number 46 on the year, has been identified. 58 years old, just answering his door. Wonder wat he was doing in that neghborhood??

Anonymous said...

Race war in an understatement. One is making racists comments and saying he's not racists. The other one comes out here with well thought out ideas and then starts going on a rampage and showing himself as nothing more as a racists as well.
I find both your comments unbelievably racists. As for Trevin, dear god man. You come out here and have a well thought opinions and did so without offending anyone and then you go on a rampage about what you don't like about whites:

You people for too long think that you have some sort of entitlement that no one else in this country is privileged to have. Especially the White Male.

Ummm okay.

Whites for too long have looked to abuse the lesser standing of anyone who is not white.

This is 2007, not 1947 or 1847 or 1907.

White males have small penises and are jealous of “Us People” because of that.

I love that comment... that’s a serious false stereo-type if I remember from gym class.

White males hate it when we sleep with white women.

Could care less... Speaking of which congrats to Tiger Woods.

All whites think all blacks are criminal in nature.

Can't say I'd have black friends if that was true... I tend to distance myself from criminials of any color.

There are no poor white people.

Maybe not in the area you speak of, but Milwaukee is a big city, WI is a big state. Poverty has no color.

These are a few of the things that I feel about “Your People”

That is what makes you racists too. You're generalizing a color. You’re proving to be no better than this other dope.

Other Side said...

Trevin, you would have been better off not replying to the jerks. Just one white guy's opinion.

Z man said...

Ok, now I am pissed off. I read Eugene Kane's article "They're the few, and they haven't got a clue" on Sunday and was thoroughly impressed. I thought that Mr. Kane had done some actual work and went out into the community to speak with some actual "thugs." Now he is admitting that it was all "satire."

Wow. It is amazing to me that a man would stoop to that level after the brutal attack on Juneteenth Day. That is disrespectful towards the victims in the incident and everyone else.

Call me stupid if you want for believing for a second that Mr. Kane would actually produce an ounce of worthwhile journalism that may actually help race relations in Milwaukee. Dr. King would be appalled.

Trevin said...

My interaction with Seve was in no ways the start of a race war....people really need to relax sometimes. My words were constructed to provide a window into how ignorant words are dangerous and unwarranted in this day and age. Read my words as far as my list of generalizations goes, and you will see that I described such generalizations as garbage. People should read everything before accusing others of doing something that they are not doing. Im Out!!!!

Trevin said...

Did none of you read what I worte after my I hated wasting my time writing that garbage.....that it was written to make a point that generalizations are dangerous and misleading? here is what I wrote following that list of generalizations:
"Are you serious, everything from your tone and your played out generalizations sound exactly like the garbage I just wasted my time writing."

Does anyone on this blog not understand sarcasim??? It seems like it is a lost art in this day and age of hypersensitive reactions. PLEASE READ ALL THAT I WROTE BEFORE YOU CALL ME A RACIST!!! Generalizing was the central theme around my communication with Seve, and if people chose not to see that, that is on them. Relax is only a blog....not the march on Selma.

Z man said...

Trevin: I understood your sarcasm right away. So yes, someone does understand it on this blog.

Trevin said...

....And as far as the old man getting shot at his front door, does anyone here think that was anything but a drug situation???? C'mon now people...a little common sense can go a long way. The man obviously owed money to someone, or why else would he have been shot while answering his door? Common sense folks, that is all it takes!!!

Z man said...

It even says right in the little bit of commentary on JSonline about the man getting shot that the police are investigating whether it was drug related. Guess what, the only reason the police would say anything about it possibly being drug related is that they are 99% sure that it is drug related. The police would not say that comment almost immediately if it was what they believed to be an innocent victim who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Real Wisconsin News said...

Are you seriously surprised by Eugene Kane's antics?
He's just a big mouth idiot whose brain still lives in 1930.
He blames white folks for everything, is a hypocrite, and causes more racial tension in Milwaukee with one column than most can do in a month.
The best part is: all his "talks" and "writings" show nothing. The man hasn't provided a single helpful solution or extended his hand to the community to help.
He's at JS for ratings and nothing more because JS knows it pisses people off... BUT he gets readers to read his slop and get spun up.
JS could care less that he's making diversity worse with his ramblings… it’s ratings.

Mike Plaisted said...

Holy Moley, what the heck is going on out here? I go off to have a pleasant day in court and get back to find all heck is breaking loose in my comment section.

Well, good. Keep mixing it up. The truth is in here somewhere. More later tonight with another post.

Oh, and by the way, Eugene Kane is the one of the only writers on racial matters in the city that has consistently made sense over the years, and especially recently. Those who try to take him done, like "Real Wisconsin News" -- whose most recent comment here (4:10) is one of the stupidest baseless attacks I have seen by anybody about anything -- are just jealous that he has the readership and writing skill to put the lie to their shrill wrongness.

Z man said...

I guess I'm not as much surprised as I am disappointed. Your comments are right on the money about Mr. Kane.

Real Wisconsin News said...

Mike, You're an idiot.
The fact that you think he has good writings is funny. He's a hypocrite. Look at his blogs were he rips people for mistaking black people. Then he does it himself.
Then he takes the beat down as a joke and makes a fake interview.
Eugene Kane's mind is set in the 1800's. He has not done ONE THING for the community. He's an idiot, he causes racial tension, he throws the race card out 24/7... but look who I am talking to... the same breed of man. Hateful, ignorant, morons.
Stupidest attacks?! I have to laugh at that. I am jealous of man who is too lazy to actually interview someone (laziness or scared)... sure.
The fact that you think he consistently makes sense shows your ignorance as well.
He is pot stirring. He doesn't have suggestions... just ramblings to stir the racial tension pot. After all... if there wasn't any he'd be out of a job.

Anonymous said...

I'm confused, 'Real Wisconsin News'. You're blog is named "Real Milwaukee News" but on your profile your location is listed as Waukesha. So which is it Mr. News?

Anonymous said...

Counselor Plaisted, it appears to me that you're more concerned about a random, victimless (thankfully) crime in Oshkosh 90 miles away in which the accused shooter has been arrested and will be put on trial instead of a mob beating only a few blocks away from where you live that nearly killed an innocent man and not a SINGLE person is on custody yet despite it being completely caught on film.

You may want to move to Oshkosh since you appear to care more about crime up there than you do in your own backyard.

I cannot imagine waking up every day as a liberal filled with so much hate and vitriol aganist fellow Americans...

Anonymous said...

A minor point, perhaps -- but let's be factual, folks. To all those who keep trying to downplay the gunplay in Oshkosh as "one old man":

Five people were arrested for shooting off more than a dozen rounds from high-powered rifles.

If that happened in Milwaukee, the media -- again and again, the point of Plaisted's post -- probably would call it a "gang." And a lot of people here trying to dismiss the event would probably call them "thugs." That's the point.

Anonymous said...


Since you talk about others as being racist, I'm curious about what you meant by this: "newly-anointed OK-black-guy James Harris"?

What, exactly, do you mean by that?

I expect a good answer to this one. And, I'm sure it won't be filled with your hateful, racist, black-people-who-disagree-with-you-can't-think-for-themselves crap.

So, let's have it...what did you mean by that?

Z man said...

Will you guys just please read the facts?

They were firing off rounds at either a target or into the air to disrupt the festival. They were not firing at anyone or at any speakers or video equipment. The old man was charged with DC and Resisting, both misdemeanors, for his actions. It is not recklessly endangering safety for people firing off rifles in a rural area. It happens every day. These people were just idiots and they set out what they wanted to accomplish - disrupting the festival. Besides the old man fighting with officers, they did not put anyone's life in danger.

How can you compare that with a ruthless group of thugs pulling an innocent man out of his car and beating him half to death? The group arrested near the Country USA grounds were thugs in their own way, but their intentions were not to hurt anyone. Believe me, they would have hurted people if they wanted too, especially with high powered rifles.

This is not to minimalize the actions of the group arrested near the Festival. They deserve to be prosecuted for creating a huge disturbance and ruining people's days. But do not compare them to a group of thugs who may have killed a man with their bare hands had the police not shown up when they did.

Other Side said...

Ouch, Mike. I'm guessing you have enough material to write your next post about the meaning of irony and cluelessness.

Mike Plaisted said...

Will you guys knock it off for a while? I'm trying to read the Onion.

There have been many names though the years for the role that James Harris is playing on the radio and on his TMJ vanity blog. For now, I'll repeat that he is a Clarence Thomas wannabee (his homage to Thomas has been strangely scrubbed from his blog), willing to carry wing-nut water, letting his mentor Sykes use him to make points about how bad other black voices are for not agreeing with him. Not to mention his extremely unoriginal rips on any Democrat.

He was annointed by TMJ when they gave him a radio show and is annointed by wing-nuts high and low as "the only voice of reason" in Black Milwaukee. His existence is, most of all, convenient for those squawking about race issues, who need someone lean on for legitimacy they will never have.

Anonymous said...

Z Man, agreed that the Milwaukee incident was worse.

But you also are minimizing what happened in Oshkosh. News stories state that officers were injured, that they think that the shots were fired toward the festival, that more charges are contemplated and could include reckless endangerment.

So much for "it is not recklessly endangering safety." Yes, it happens in rural areas -- I lived in one, no thanks, never again, in part because of hunters ignoring notices. It doesn't happen every day, and when it does, it still is illegal if it is recklessly endangering someone. Or 45,000 someones at the festival.

Both incidents, in Oshkosh and in Milwaukee, were awful. Three people were injured. The question of this blogger is, again, why is one incident being minimized by comparison in media?

Anonymous said...

Why is it that left wing hate mongers like Mike Plaisted always have to slam an educated, intelligent black man who lives in the inner city who just happens to have a few conservative beliefs? How dare he not drink the federally-funded liberal kool aid!!!

There are several "voices of reason" in the black community including James T. Harris:

Mayor Marvin Pratt
Bishop Sedgewick Daniels
Ald. Willie Hines
Rep. Jason Fields
Mikal Holt
Sen. Lena Taylor (some of the time)
Sheriff David Clarke
Judge Clevert
Judge Mosley
Bishop Darrell Hines

Just to name a few...

But Mike is obviously a coward and only likes to slam those who espouse their conservative beliefs on the same radio station as archenemy Charlie Sykes.

babblemur said...

Oh - I forgot to mention, there were lots of arrests at Country USA but they were mostly for drunk driving, fighting, sexual assault and rape, drug use, vandalism, road rage (seriously), and assault.

Those were all country usa fans.

And the five people arrested for shooting their guns nearby.

Us whiteys can do some crime, too!

Mike Plaisted said...

Hey, I'm not "slamming" James Harris. I'm just pointing out the fact that he has been annointed by others and he serves a useful function for them. He is unoriginally anti-Democrat, he walks a very predictable conservative line and he really does like what Clarence Thomas has helped do to the Supreme Court. If you think that's "slamming", then I guess you don't like that kind of guy.

He's got his show and his writing and, however he got there, more power to him. He's just wrong 90% of the time. How does pointing that out make me a "hate-monger"?

Now, if you want to talk about a pathetic right-wing political hack, let's talk about David Clarke...

patrick said...

Mike should apologize to Mr. Harris and the other people of color his comments must certainly offend. He won’t. But he we have to wonder if he knows what he is doing—supporting that quiet new slavery pressed upon minorities and the poor of dependence and thought control.

See, in Mike’s view, Mr. Harris—who can defend himself—is like Justice Thomas. Justice Thomas doesn’t share Mike’s views or those of Mr. Kane, so he is not authentically minority and other minorities should not listen. We note that Mike cannot ever address the substance of Mr. Harris or other conservatives; he just denounces them as “talking points” or “hate.”

As for Mr. Kane, though I respect him, I can see little merit in his columns, only self interest. If he takes a more conservative stance, Mike will say he is selling out—another Condoleezza Rice. If Mr. Kane cannot pin everything on race, the controversy he creates would die away and there would be no need for his column or paycheck. He is paid to stir the pot, that’s it. And in two years of reading his column you can predict his every word.

But the larger point is this. Liberals need to control the votes of the poor and the minorities. They do so by convincing them that their problems are beyond their ability to solve and that they hold a golden ticket—one promised and never given. They promise that with one more government program the problem can be solved. While they tell the poor and minorities that their problems are beyond their power to solve, they also take away any victory at the same time. Those that escape are either sell-outs—like Thomas or Rice, who are permitted to escape by “the man”—or they benefited from a liberal welfare program. Both of these are false. But what is true is that liberal social programs create dependency—and slavery—and they have destroyed the family structures of much of the minority and larger community of the poor (this is the real modern racist crime). Of course, I’m not suggesting that all minority or poor families are failing; I’ll let Mike or someone else say that. Liberals warn the poor that mean conservatives will take away their welfare programs, and they might do so if they could. Most likely this would be a slow process. However, since nobody likes change, the poor and minorities stay in the liberal prison camps out of fear and they rage at anyone—Rice, Thomas, or Harris—who appears to have escaped.

Anonymous said...

Mike you absolutely slammed James T. Harris...go back and read what you wrote, you treated him as if he has no place as a writer, blogger, or radio host and that he didn't deserve to be where he is currently is. You cannot even admit when a black man/female is intelligent when they speak in conservative tones. And then you throw out ridiculous claims like he's "90% wrong". Oh yeah? Who says? What FACTS do you have to back that up? Oh wait, nevermind, it's just easier to spew forth random stats and hate speech. Nice.

Anonymous said...

Hey, I think we all suck on this post. Look at us, all talking bullshit about serious matters behind the comfort of our virtual worlds. Why don't we all arrange some sort of meeting and discuss this all in public, like people used to do. I'm not being sarcastic or antagonistic, I'm serious. I'll bet we all find that, despite our differing views, we are like-minded individuals who are united by common interests in the city of Milwaukee. May truth and reason be with all of us.

Mike Plaisted said...

Oh, fer crying out loud, Patrick...

A primary wing-nut tactic is to define "liberals" in ways that even they couldn't stand. So, I think Harris and Thomas are "not authentically minority and other minorities should not listen"? Never said it; never would. Of course they are minorities and people can listen to whoever they want -- the severity of the problem calls for a diversity of ideas. It is the wing-nuts who want to declare all efforts in the past and present as "failed" and want to shut all others out of the discussion.

Hell, I'll take on Harris or anyone else in the world of ideas. But they won't come out. Wing-nuts won't debate -- it gives too much credence to the other side and all of their straw-men are seen for what they are.

But, I just love this stuff: "Liberals need to control the votes of the poor and the minorities. They do so by convincing them that their problems are beyond their ability to solve... liberal social programs create dependency—and slavery—and they have destroyed the family structures of much of the minority and larger community of the poor (this is the real modern racist crime)...mean conservatives will take away their welfare programs [well...]...the poor and minorities stay in the liberal prison camps out of fear and they rage at anyone—Rice, Thomas, or Harris—who appears to have escaped."

This screed is such a load of crap on so many levels. The "liberals want to keep the poor down" schtick has been right-wing cant from everyone from Limbaugh to the local stooges for years. "Liberal prison camps? "Slavery"? "Thought Control"? How 'zat again?

But this is how the wing-nut game is played -- put me in the box of evil thought-control prison camp guards so you don't have to deal with what I'm saying and how wrong you might be. There. Feel better?

Oh, and I never questioned Harris' intellegence or said he was dealing in "hate". I have nothing to say whether he's a writer or a blogger, nor would I want to. TMJ wants to annoint him and put him on the radio, so what -- I mean, anything is a step up from McBride.

So, stop putting words in my mouth and deal with what I'm actually saying. Or is that just too damn tough for you?

Mike Plaisted said...

Anony 9:09 -- Yes, we all suck. Let me know when and where. Free bags over heads provided to those who wish to remain Anonymous.

I'm kidding, jeez...

Anonymous said...

What are you saying, Mike, other than right wingers are racists?

The answer is: NOTHING

In order for you to feel vindicated by your beliefs, you need to believe that conservatives are by their very nature racists who will stop at nothing to supress minorities at every turn in life whereas you and your beliefs are the panacea for all things poor, minority, and downtrodden.

Mike Plaisted said...

What did I just say about putting words in my mouth? WHAT DID I SAY??? Now, go to your room....

There are no panaceas for any of the historically tragic and intractable problems in the inner city. I do think the course of trying to understand how we got here -- the roots of (true) slavery and constant poverty -- and working for solutions that recognize desperate needs and offer a way up, if not out. But, if you have a solution other than constantly blaming the victims, destroying the public schools and locking them all up, I'd like to hear it.

And I don't know if conservatives are racist on the whole -- I hope not, because it's going to be a long haul for them in a more diverse world -- but I know some, especially on the radio, play racist games.

Which gets me back to original point of the original post. The lack of hysterical diatribes about the violence in Oshkosh exposes the hypocritical demogogery of the wing-nuts on problems in the inner city. The fact is they really don't care about either.

patrick said...


Didn't think there was anything left to say about the Country USA thing. Obviously, it is clearly over-reaction on your part.

But you call Clarke a right wing political hack--is that substance? Sherrif Clarke is out there fighting the battle on the streets and in the media. He's making a real cotribution. He's only a hack because he disagrees with you and your liberal friends. To me he hardly seems like a hack, especially since he has been reelected despite the best efforts of the left.

But you will not deny the point that social welfare programs create dependency, which creates desperation and fear. Not in all cases, but in enough that these programs must be viewed as a danger. People who succeed do so because of the content of their character, not because of lefty programs. The ideas of the past have failed--or made things worse. As entitlements rose, so did the rate of single-motherhood and most every other social problem. As far as the present goes, all the left is offering is more of the same (with the "fairness doctrine" as an added bonus to secure the gates)

Of course if there is some new idea--besides self-reliance--I'm unaware of please let me know.

And Mike, I know a lot of people who have done public defender work, so I know you have it hard and thankless. You're not evil....just closed minded and set in your ways. I might be too. But I have not been conservative all my adult life; I've changed. I just can't see much evidence that the left is really interested in the self-reliance of the poor. The left doesn't want the poor to starve--they want them to vote. You might call this right-wing cant, but that doesn't mean it isn't true. Look at campaign promises. Did you see the last liberal presidential debate; it was contest to see who could promise more. Look at the real details of Doyle's "wisconsin covenant"--empty. So what's wrong with this screed?

Conservatives, on the other hand, want to make space for individuals to succeed on their own merit; and conservatives believe they can. They don't promise you'll succeed. That's life. Some fail.

Mike Plaisted said...

Ah, Social Darwinism...You want to see some REAL problems? Pull what's left of the safety net and see what happens.

Let's see...I won't deny what, now? "social welfare programs create dependency, which creates desperation and fear". OK, first of all, I am unaware of any remaining "social welfare programs" that are good enough to create dependency. What are you talking about, food stamps? Yeah, that $116 in stamps will really keep you from taking that job offer.

And this pretend dependency creates what now? "Deperation and fear"? Oh, I don't know. If it was any good, it might create a sense of security, especially for children.

I am proud of the work I do and it is far from thankless. My clients come from all over Milwaukee County and have an infinite number of interesting stories to tell -- some tragic, some inspiring. The poor in Milwaukee are not the cartoon figures the wing-nuts make them out to be. They are real people, with real grievances and real challenges that they face, wiht varying degrees of success, every day.

Aw, screw it, I'm going to bed. See you at Anony 9:09's summit.

Anonymous said...

Funny, you blame the plight of minorities on everything EXCEPT families. You blame government, conservatives, institutionalized racism, etc...but not once do you mention the failure of the family. You fix the family, you fix MANY ills of society for ALL races and backgrounds. Show me parents, together or otherwise, that care and you probably will have a kid who succeeds and GETS it.

Anonymous said...

Did you know the divorce rate in this country is 50% and it's not all in the inner city? Fun fact. White suburban kids with single parents seem to make it just fine, I'm sure you see them every day. You are likely one of them.

Mike Plaisted said...

Well, now we are finally getting to the usual right-wing crux of the matter -- the failure of the "family", leading to this and that, the hopelessness of it all, why bother until "they" get "their" act together, blah blah blah.

Yeah, sure, wouldn't it be nice? But, as I often tell my clients, things are the way they are, not they way we might want them to be. Many kids in the inner city are not in regular nuclear families, many being raised by single women and their extended families. Any solutions have to recognize that reality, rather than wishing that reality would go away or suggesting that the children of parents who make certain (single) choices get what they deserve.

There are ten of thousands of super-women in the inner city of Milwaukee, who manage not only the feed, clothe and house their children, but also help them to thrive. There are also many men I know who have sole custody of their children and are doing the right thing. Having two parents together is not a guarantee of success; having a single parent is not a guarantee of failure.

People get to where they are in life an infinite number of ways for an infinite number of reasons. Moral judgements about choices and often unpreventable events accomplish nothing. The questions is: what do we do now?

Mic Playsted said...

Take money away from the rich because they don't need it anyway and just give it all to the poor, that way everyone will be equal!

Other Side said...

What amuses me is that anonynmous (all of them) seem to think a white kid raised in the suburbs can be equated to a black kid raised in the inner city ... somehow they are on an equal plain.

And this from Patrick is revealing:

Conservatives, on the other hand, want to make space for individuals to succeed on their own merit; and conservatives believe they can. They don't promise you'll succeed. That's life. Some fail.

Basically meaning you're on your own. That's a sad ideology to live by.

Anonymous said...

So if we're not "on our own" then it's up to government to make sure we succeed and provide us with everything?

Mike Plaisted said...

Mic: Never said that, never thought it, not a logical extension of what I said. Try again.

Anony 10:00: "Succeed"? "Everything"? No.

Like I said, pull what's left of the safety net and then see what happens. It would be a lot uglier than it is now.

Since you guys keep saying it, your point really must be that you would rather see the bottom fall out.

Like I said at the top, you do not approach the problems in the inner city in good faith or with good will. You just want people who have made what you say are bad choices to pay the price, suffer even more and fail. You win, they lose -- again. Feel better?

So much for solutions. So much for them. So much for the children. That's why all the bullshit and bluster on the radio, the blogs and, now, in these comments is so offensive. You're not serious.

Anonymous said...

And you are serious? All you do is name-call and blame conservatives for all of the ills of society. Still waiting for your list of tangible solutions ... waiting ... still waiting ...

The only one I can figure out in your writings is that all of society's ills will be solved when democrats control everything starting in January 2009.

Anonymous said...

Hey, what do you know? I was write. More shootings in Milwaukee last night. That makes 5 shootings in the last 24 hours or so. Check it out:

But hey, lets talk about that shooting at Country USA because that is the type of stuff that is really in need of addressing, right?

You are pathetic Plaisted.

Z man said...

After thinking about it more, I am gonna make one final comment. One of the main things about the difference in media coverage is the location of where these things happened. I bet if you watched all the news reports in Oshkosh, the majority of the top stories would probably focus on Country USA and the Juneteenth Day Celebration riot would have been an afterthought if mentioned up there at all on the news. Whereas, down here Juneteenth Day riots are close to home, so they will be covered more rampantly and scrutinized more here.

Other Side said...

Hey anonymous: "I was write," you wrote. Who's the pathetic one?

Anonymous said...

Oh jeez, sorry "Otherside." How dare I make an error while typing? I must surely be pathetic myself. I don't blame you though for calling me out on that typo, after all, I had a pretty good point, so you probably didn't want to address the substance of my post. Loser.

Other Side said...

You are. Thanks for clarifying.

Anonymous said...


I am truly curious, do you really admire Joel M?

The guys liberalness aside I loathe Mcnally because the guy has no backbone at all. I am not at all referring to his writing which has the predictability of my clock. I mean the man himself. the guy is the most pandering suck up "be my friend" begger I have ever had the misfortune of meeting. He reminds me of the kid who we used to pay so he wouldnt hang around with us.

Eugene Kane I take with a grain of salt, much like Rush Limbaugh. Here's the deal if Kane dont slant things a certain way hes out of a job. I think a healthy dose of skepticism is needed when you read or listen to anyone who needs a particular viewpoint to keep working.

The inner city (black) problems need to be addressed by the people at the center of the dilemma. I dont think you would get a lot of opposition from white people if we were on a path that said, we'll help but you need to do your share" people are beyond sick of hearing. "We have the problem now and need to address it" ok fine but with that address needs to be a push to ensure the problem goes away. That push is going to be hard , painful and fraught with racial accusations. The dilemma is one of one side says we want this and if we dont get it that is because of racism, the other side says we'll help but were not giving you carte blance. Side one feels they dont get what they need and side two says no matter what is given more is always asked for.

I think you'll find most white people, dont care about black people or asian people or hispanic people or other white people. The problem gets to be when the white people feel they are being blamed for problems, told (not asked)told they need to help being label if they dont help or try to help and then being accused or racism for damn near every proposal they make to address the problem.

What happens is ultimately what we are seeing now and that is...

Ok fine its your problem, you fix it, do whatever you want and leave us out of it or accept what we say and at least try to work with what we believe is a solution.

I was one who really did try and help, I volunteered, I tutored, I worked for social reform...but I never saw any real change, I got disgusted after awhile and stopped. Now I have my own family and that is who I worry about.

Mike Plaisted said...

When the Journal and Sentinel merged, there were many great losses to journalism in town -- the lack of story competition in city hall, the statehouse, nationally -- it was a great loss of two perspectives, however mild the mainstream differences were. But one of the worst things was losing McNally -- one of the many good writers who did not make the cut -- to the mainstream audience. His perspective is a necessary one and the J-S hasn't even tried to replace it. He still gets his nose under the tent in the Shepard Express, with far less coverage and impact. As for your personal contact with him -- well, I met him a few times -- I don't think he knows who I am -- but he always seems to be a nice enough guy. Your comments are sort of weird there.

I think the editors of the increasingly right-wing J-S would rather Eugene Kane not have the strong Afro-American-centric viewpoint that he so strongly represents. That voice, like McNally's, is a necessary part of the local and national conversation. The comparison with Limbaugh is ludicrious. Limbaugh, like the other wing-nuts, is bought-and-sold by the GOP; their big dancing bear. Kane has his own voice, speaks for no one but himself and his community, as he sees it.

Those, like you, who have tried to solve the intractable inner city problems at any point in their lives, are too few. Those, like you, who threw up their hands and retreated to the concerns of their own family, are understood and appreciated for the work they did while they could.

But you draw too stark a line for what's possible. It is not "we have this problem and you need to address it" vs. "you are on your own". There is a middle ground, and the search for solutions by people of good will have always recognized that. Neither the idea that racism and poverty are at the heart of the problem nor the idea of forcing self-help are new concepts. If you look hard enough, you will see both in McNally's and Kane's writing.

But the wing-nuts using their hypocritical megaphones to screech about how violent and bad the poor are gets us nowhere. I haven't heard any solutions from these people. Their message is: It's hopeless, they're helpless, it's not "our" problem, let "them" fail. To the extent anyone is listening to them on their powerful radio stations, they are irresponsible. To the extent they want to be taken seriously, they can't be.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the response. My comparison to Rush & Kane is simple. I do not take either one of them to seriously. Rush knows what he must say to keep his listeners, Kane knows what he must say to keep his column.

I have personal feelings toward McNally so maybe my feelings there are be it no point in really debating that I guess.

I get the feeling you seem to think people have not tried to fix the ills plaguing the inner city. I would disagree I think we have been trying for decades and what we have tried is not working. Mostly in my opnion because you cant rely on the government to fix anything.

I draw a stark line I freely admit it. Problems are problems and all of them have a root and a solution.

I guess my view is this, identify the problem and then a solution and go after the solution. The solution does not need to be a feel good for those involved it just needs to work.

I think we spend to much time trying to alleviate symptoms and never get around to treating the illness.

If you broke your leg, the doctor gives you pain meds and sets the leg.

If you doctor gives you pain meds, but never sets your leg, you'll need more meds, ultimetly you'll need more meds and then need antibiotics to treat the infection that came from never setting the break.

We have spent decades giving meds (some say to little, some say to much) but what we have not done is set the break.

The problem is there wating to be fixed, we need to stop treating the symptoms and start getting to the core problems.

I really would like you to have a blog where maybe ideas and proposals could be submitted and debated, maybe we could come up with something fresh...

Until then, its late and I'm going to bed


Anonymous said...

"Right-leaning JS"????? I almost fell off my chair.

Up until VERY recently they didn't have a full-time conservative columnist (McIlheran). I'll need more fingers and toes to add up their liberally-leaning columnists and members of their editorial board.

Anonymous said...

Ohhhh my god man are you people sad... so pathetic man stop crying about waht is going on in your lifes and deal with it.... i mean ive heard gunshots all over the place but i dont get all worried up.. as long as i dont mess around with the wrong pople i wont get nothing done to myself... so just do the same and ur off the problems...